>> well, when i wanted a doughnut this morning, i went down and get it. i've been a member of congress for 34 years and to finally get beat, if i was a manager for a be able or football team and i had 34-1, i'd be in the hall of fame, so doesn't bother me. and really it didn't bother me to get beat, because i wasn't just set on going. i had 18 co-chairman who were chairman of my 18 counties in my district that were supporting me and wanted me to run, and i did. it's -- better judgment was it -- it's hard toe get elected if you are 90 or 91-year-old and they don't tell people that you run two miles every morning, that you vote 99 plus percent of the time. there's a difference between that and old people. that wasn't brought up by the dallas morning news because they're not in my favor.

>> what's your secret, how are you running two miles a day? >> i was told once, i was in the cattle building, if one of your he was has a bull calf. go out there and lift the bull calf every day over the fence, day after day after day until he's a full-grown bull. then when you can still lift him over the fence and throw him over the fence, you can throw the bull enough, you can run for congress. that's what they told me. so that's how i got into the congress, i left the cattle business and came here. >> well, you've switched parties during your time here. you've seen the parties change so many times. what's your handicap, let's start with the democrats what do you see when you look at the democratic party? >> well, the democrat party was a two-party party, democrats and liberal democrats. i wasn't really liked any better by the republicans than the democrats, because i voted in my district. i had the sam rayburn district.

go up there and do a job and tell them you're doing a good job. i'm not a golfer. i don't hunt. i don't fish. i campaign when i have a day. i go walk a building out or something. i've campaigned all my life. i think that's the way i stayed elected ed. >> staying with the democrats, today is it still split between the liberals and the conservatives >> oh. yeah. there's three or four conservatives over there now. >> that's it? >> yeah. >> so it's changed.

>> they'll slowly become republicans, probably. of course it would make sam rayburn if he were alive. he was our kind of democrat. because when he looked back over his shoulder as he went to bonham texas to die, he left a balanced budgets, so he was a conservative. >> when you look at the republican party, your challenger was a tea party member. is the republican party -- >> i don't know if he's a tea party member or not. you can't direct mail them. we don't know who they are or where they are. i always tell them to look at my record.

>> are you seeing the party split the same way you described the democrats between fiscal conservatives and -- >> well, we have different types of conservatives as republicans. we have those that are hell for leather, republicans, you know, and it's got to be a republican if you're right. you have to be a conservative if you're right, and that's what we're beginning to learn, i think. >> other members that we've talked to have talked about how the congress has changed in the past during your tenure to an institution where people used to do things together off hours, which played out in more compromise. do you find that the place has changed in that regard and, if so, why? >> well, pretty much. when i got here i was a conservative democrat.

i didn't really fit. republicans really didn't want me and the democrats didn't like me. for example, the bushes were dear friends of mine. i flew with the old bush. he flew torpedo bombers. he was of a famous family. he didn't know me until after the war was over. i knew those people and add mired them. i had good luck with the bushes and good luck with reagan. i have a picture on my wall made with reagan, looking at our boots at camp david. the first six months he was there, i thought i'm going to be at camp david for the rest of my life. that was 30 or 40 years ago. i haven't been back. i don't know if i participated correctly out there. i asked him some questions about marilyn monroe. he was a good guy and easy to talk to. ronald reagan came here when a man, one person could make a difference. i doubt that they can today. >> why so ? >> i don't know. he came here accepted as a conservative democrat or republican, but he'd been a democrat like all the rest of us, so he was in between -- he was a in-between deal there. somehow we felt like you could trust him. i got called the first 30 days he was here, because when he hit here, he hit here with a plan to increase pay for the military and yet cut the budget. that was his goal, and he had enough folks to get it, do it. when he got here about 19 or 20 of his fellow republicans came to him and said, if you don't

hang the way you're voting on funs and on abortion, we're not going to support your bill. of course, you know what they told them, to go jump. but then he had to have some help out of the democratic party i was a democrat there. billy townsend was a democrat. we had some strength over there. jim baker could tell the president, call one of those guys and they'll help you. they said, well, i know ralph hall better an i know any of them. we'll have the president call him and maybe he'll pick up those votes that he lost. they needed about 10 votes. they told me he was going to call me. so i was ready for him. he called and said, this is ronald reagan. i said, yeah, i believe that. martha, come over here. he thinks i'm reagan now, but -- i want you to hear him. he said, no, i really am.

another guy came over and no, it's really him. that's the funny type things that you don't forget. >> sure. >> when i knocked on the door he told me to come over there. i need some time. i had a program like he did. i always wanted to put a president on hold. i put him on hold about two minutes and i said, well, i can come over there today, tomorrow, or the next 30 minutes. what you want me to do? he told me to get my you-know-what over there. i knocked on the door. he said one question, what is it going to take for you to help me pay for the budget? i had an answer for him. >> as you look across the president's ha you've served under, served with, which of them have been the best at working congress to get their legislative -- >> i'd probably have to say reagan.

he was so believable, and he had been a democrat, you know, pretty much, but the two bushes were easy for me to work with because i knew them. during world war ii, i had flown -- been at the same base a time or two with the old bush. he was a famous father. i knew who he was. he didn't have any idea who i was. i supported him for some statewide race. i think he got beat the first time. but bushes have always been favorites of mine. because i knew little george when he was nine or 10 or 12 years old. i knew he was never going to be president.

but that's what a good woman can do for you. she changed him. you can have me or you can have jack daniels and he made the right choice. that woman probably saved the guy. >> ronald reagan was the best at working congress many >> i think so. >> yeah. >> i think he handled them better. he even went over and tear down that wall and brought cheers rather than jeers.

he knew what to say and when to say it. he came when one person could make a difference. i don't think one person can make a difference now. >> a person that you have on your wall. lyndon johnson. what was your impression of him? >> he landed a helicopter many our football field and i got to know him then. i went to work for him and i think they were paying me $3 a day to put up his placards, but

what i had to do, i had to bring them three placards of the guy they were hiring me against. they really were hiring me to tear the other guy's placards down. i got to application later because he was a good -- politics later. >> you left politics for a while and worked in private industry but decided to come back and make your bid for national elected office. who drew you back in after your time in private life ? >> i was in business and i was buying and selling land. i was -- rockwall county's the smallest county in texas, 254 counties and my little county is the smallest.

dallas spills over on us and as they spilled over on us, it increased the value of our land and the counties next to us. i bought a lot of land and bought it and sold it at that time right time. during the 80's when every hit bottom, i was running for offers and i was trying to come up here. if i had been doing what i'd been doing, i'd have been broke. but i wasn't. all through the 1980's i was trying to stay -- keep my head above water because i knew i was coming to congress. >> why did you want to come to congress? >> well, sam rayburn and my mother were schoolmates at mayo

college, a little college before east texas teachers state college at commerce, texas. now it's texas a&m at commerce. they elected a good friend. she wrote a letter to sam rayburn when world war ii broke out and asked me to help me get an officer, get officers training school. he didn't call her back or write her back. he came to her breakfast table. he said i can't hire him because of his grades. i graduated in a class of 38 but i graduated number 38. i always have been able to make it some way. somebody's been good to me. >> was it sam rayburn that made you want to come to congress? >> yeah. because my mother spoke to highly of me. a bunch of republicans came to me one time when i was a county judge in rockwall and was going to put up money for me to run against sam rayburn. my mother asked me, if you do that, where are you going to get breakfast, you know? i wasn't going to run against sam rayburn. he was a great man. i think sam rayburn could still be speaker of this house or could be -- i think, oh, joe

dimaggio could still hit the fastball, the pitchers of today. i think those old guys could still operate the way they did, because, you know, when -- like i said, when ray burn looks back over his shoulder, he left a nation here that had a plan for it and had a balanced budget and had had one for 10 years when he was there. >> your office is in the ray burn building. did you do that intentionally? >> no. i always wanted to get here. the first year i was here, we drew for offices. there were 9 of us and i drew up in 9 . >> last again? >>, the last again -- >> i drew number 630 when there was 62 votes. so i stayed where i was. finally, i stayed here so-long had my choice and i picked this place. this is the best office on the hill. >> why is that? >> you're closer to the elevator, the views, and you think about that when you're an old guy, rest r5078s.

got everything an old guy wants. >> you're surrounded by lots of photographs. >> so proud of all these people. they're all friends of mine. i don't know what i'm going to do with all these pictures. i have neil armstrong who came to my home and supported me when it looked like i might get beat. he came and worked for me.

he was a good guy. buzz aldrin's been to my home several times, and in rockwall, you know, they weren't sure who buzz aldrin was, but they knew he was somebody. and of course i took him to the schools. you know, seniors vote. this guy, neil armstrong and buzz aldrin came on one of my election action -- elections. he called me from new york. i have tickets, you come pick me up. he said the dallas morning news is knocking around. first thing i learned is you don't fight people. he came here and it helped me. they helped me through the campaign. i've had good luck and all kinds of help. to be in politics and stay, you have to have some ability but you have to have a little luck every now and then.

i've always had that and had people who helped me. the regulation -- when people were going to run against me, the regulation were republicans and they'd tell the people in my district that they weren't going to get any republican money, the money would go with me. wasn't too good be some of the real hard wing left democrats up there but they're still my friends. >> what are you going to do with your pictures and papers? are they going to a university somewhere? >> i'm told they're going to take all the pictures to texas a&m, reproduce them and give these back to me. i hope they do. >> your papers are going to texas a&m? >> yes. everything i have are going to texas a&m at commerce. my grandson went to school there. my wife, when i was in the office here started school there and went all the way through and

got her degree from there. so we're east texas state teachers college people. didn't know there was another school anywhere. >> many of these pictures and memorabilia are from the space program. will you talk about what you think your legacy of the space program has been? >> well, when i came up here, when i was first elected to congress, kim wright was the speaker. he'd been in my home and he and i were good friends. i'd referee a fistfight that he had with a guy that's one of his best friends even today. i knew people who later were somebody. he called me in and said what do you want to be on. i said i want to be on something with energy texas is an energy state. i want to be something with that space station. i've gone to some of the liftoffs with some of the older members. i think i belong on some kind of space program. he put me on both of them.

it would take you 10 years to get on either one of them now days. i got lucky. i have friends in high spaces. >> what are you proudest of? >> well, i'm proudest that we -- i was that one street we name and kept them from killing the space station. they came down to one vote on that. and i got dr. debakey to walk the floors with me. we had that same vote and we won by a hundred votes. later they tried to take space out of science and technology. i was a one-man army that taught them to leave space where it was because that's where it belonged? >> why? >> going to the moon? is that transportation? i think that's a little licked. but it is space, you know, and it's been space forever. why change something like that? what benefit would it be? >> what do you think of this state's commitment to the space program today? >> well, we're hurting. we're in trouble. and it's a lack of money. i have a book over here was written by -- what is his name?

he's been before all the committees saying how bad we need the space program. i've asked them to give money and it took too much money for them. they wouldn't do it. so we're at russia's good will by -- we started out giving them $50 million for a seat to go to our own space station. we need to keep going back and forth to that station. we made a mistake when we didn't put up the amount of money that it would have taken, because the space program is just not even 1% of the overall budget. and space is so important. every youngster in the world would be affected if we lost the space station. we'd lose all our international partners if we didn't do our part in keeping the space station open and available to them. it's just important. we may have to defend the next war out of space. who knows? i told dr. debakey himself, if you ever leave that space station, we'll lose the cure for cancer. and what's more important than a cure for cancer? it's important. >> i want to go back to your

military service. fewer and fewer members of congress have served in the military. does it make a difference, considering that members have to make that important vote about -- >> yes, it does and it made a lot of difference that i was a veteran when i came here. sonny montgomery was the only general i knew that i could call sonny, but that was his real name. if he lost four votes in the entire congress he'd go grab them by the tie. what do you mean voting against space, what do you mean voting against my bill? he was strong and it was a strong push that day and time and still should be. >> what about members of congress with military service when you have to vote on things like sending people to war? how important is that? does it matter? >> it matters if you've been

side by side with someone or you've gone to your buddy's funeral or you have a grave named after you. as a joke i always kid and say when i die, do i want them to say he was a good man or he really was a good to his family or he was a good member of congress. no that's not what i want to hear them say. i want to they're them say "i thought i saw him move." so i'm 91 years old. i don't hurt anywhere. i'm not on anybody's wait list or anything like that. i still run a couple miles a day. i vote 99% of the time. i do most everything everybody else can do. i run two miles every day. i don't run it every day but there's never three days goes that i don't run it. i ran this morning. >> one thing that's changed is media coverage of congress. you mentioned ink by the barrelful. the people working in ink are hurting nowadays. it's all the internet and social

media. how do you think that's affected things? the social media and the press? >> there's been some good and some bad. i've popped off and said things to people but i've said things i wished to hell i hadn't said, you know. i think we're more aware when we talk to you folks of what we're saying that, it could be in the paper in san diego tomorrow or in tv. i think you stop and think a little bit more so than we used to, you know. a lot of these politicians, they shoot at everything that's that flies and claim at anything that falls. they'll be fruit their knees sooner or later you got to have some common sense and have some view of the future and remember what happened in the past before you pop offer here and stake take a stand on anything. >> do you have any allies in the senate? >> we have two good senators? i've always liked the senators over there. got along with them fine. never wanted to run for the senate. i was in the texas senate 10 years. >> you wouldn't you want to go over there? >> anybody would like to be in the senate, i always thought if somebody dies over there, they'd appoint me to finish the senate term and if that never happens, i think -- he's still got it. he won't run against anybody. so i'd be standing there. i'd be -- lot of times i've been

lucky just because i was standing there. >> so the senate itself, though, and the house of representatives, what can you do here that you can't get done in the senate? >> pass a bill and you have to really have the votes over there. and you have to raise so much money. the cost of running for office is a major issue up here. it's why i could never run for senate. i couldn't raise that much money. >> you've had to raise increasing amounts of money to run for the house. what do you think about - >> i've been here so long, it came easier for me. finally, this last time i ran but i was spending money on surveys. they were telling me i was 10, 12% ahead when probably i wasn't. and i -- i guess i thought i was, but it was -- it didn't turn out right, but it didn't hurt me but it hurt my people so much. i had grown people crying there. i had one guy that's 6'8" that

drives me places i go. i felt water hitting my head and i looked up, this old guy was crying. i said come on, you're 6'8", you're a grown man. it's nothing to cry about. it hurt my friends and folks more than i could -- more than it hurt me. i could seat it coming. i'm ok. i think i'm pretty lucky to be 91 years old. i got a job until december 31st now. how many guys have that? very few. >> what are you going to do with your time after? >> i will keep working, i have to. i have expensive grandchildren. i'm going to teach them -- i'm a texas guy but i'm an aggie now. they kiss me on the face, every kiss costs me a hundred dollars. they were kissing me good-bye and i had a girl who worked for me before. she was strange. not unattractive but never had any boyfriends. she was going to open the door for them. i said are you going to kiss me? she said, no. i said why not? she said, well, when you were 19 or 20, would you want to kiss a 90-year-old women?

i said that's the greatest thing i've ever heard. i think that's something people ought to hear. >> if you were asked to tell a story from your service here, the best -- helps people understand what it's like to be a member of congress, whether it's a funny story or a story of power or whatever, what would that story be? oh, i don't know. -- >> oh, i don't know. john connolly was by far the greatest politician i ever knew. he was governor of texas. should have been president but they only had one delegate and

couple million dollars wasn't nearly enough. i've had so many things that people helped me because i was a democrat and then when they helped me because i was republican. but i've always got along with -- neither one of them were many love with me but neither one of them really hated me. >> did it give you some bargaining advantage that you -- >> i think so. i've had to knock on the door of the white house and imply -- one time, i said that i think the president wanted me to vote a certain way, and i said, well, i got a brother that always wanted to be a federal judge. he turned and the guy who was standing there, he said hall, this isn't a place to ask him for this. i said hell, he's asking me for something, i said i'll ask him for something. he turned and asked them if he could get confirmed. i said wait a minute, mr. president. he's not a lawyer. that brought a big laugh. every time i saw him after that, he laughed because he liked him because he wasn't a lawyer. those are some of the things you remember. >> so any regrets? >> no, not really.

what i've done, i've had -- whether i was a democrat, if a republican would run against me or announce against me, whoever was president up here, whether it was one of the bushes or a reagan, that's most of the time i've been there, they would get in the race with me and tell them they weren't going to get any republican money. i stumbled into it because i got along with everybody. i don't think i have an enemy in the entire congress. i don't think people say that's ralph hall's bill, let's vote against him or let's vote for him. i don't have any enemies over here. i run -- don't run the thing. i'm the oldest member of

congress to ever stand on the floor and cast a vote. you'd think that ought to buy me something. maybe i shouldn't have to the run for re-election but doesn't change anything. i'm just like everybody else. >> but you made it into the history books. >> but i'm there, and they call me at first over here to talk to me about like egypt, should they arm the people that were out in the crowd there throwing rocks at their capital -- or arm the people that were in the capital that were mistreating the people who were in the streets. my suggestion was on both of them, they both hate us. well, they haven't asked me back over there since so -- i still think i was right. both of them hate us. why would we help either one of them. >> when you lost your bid, did you hear from anybody? >> everybody i know has a copy of it. >> was it george senior or -- >> it was george jr. >> what did it say? >> he said i was a good man, a good man, all that kind of bull.

i'm going home for a thing friday. i'd known they were going to deify me like they did all this time, i would have quit a long time ago. >> congressman, i don't believe that. >> well, it's true. i don't really have any enemies. i have -- bruise easily. i never won a fistfight in school. i was 6'2", and looked like ichabod crain. i wasn't much of a fistfighter. but i've always been fortunate to be in the right place and the right spot. and you have to have that kind of luck if you go where i've gone. 12 years as a judge in the smallest county in texas. i was the youngest county judge, i guess, in the state of texas. then 10 or 12 years in the

senate, texas senate to pass some very important legislation in the senate, legislation that saved jobs at texarkana there, when you feel -- you work together with them you save 500 jocks, it gives you a good feeling. all right, if you can get a good boy in guam that wants to be stationed at fort worth because his grandfather because he's dying, it's a good feeling to be able to do things like that to help people. that's what i've got out of being where i was, because i got to do things to help people that otherwise you can't do. i even see a little difference now. i'm a defeated candidate now. i see some difference out there

now as to how people treat me. or they don't need me because i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i don't like that but it's a hard, cold fact. i'm not going to be here after the 1st. i'm going to be at my grandkids. i haven't been hunting in -- i don't even know where my shotgun is. one guy in the depression said he ate so many rabbits, he freezes on dogs. i'm not that bad. i'm going to travel some. le i'm going to help some people who need help. i'm going to look after grandchildren as i've maybe not looked after as i should have or had time for them but i'm going to have time for them. >> thank you for spending time with c-span, >> thank you. it's been a honor to be here with you.

>> as carl levin comes to the end of his final term, he talks about what he hopes the next congress can accomplish and the advice he has for his successor. >> senator carl levin, chairman of the senate armed services committee, why are you retiring? >> a number of reasons. i didn't want to spend these two critical years out campaigning, raising money. i just felt there was too much at stake now, and i have a responsibility for some of those things as chairman of the armed services committee. it is not the way i wanted to spend my time, basically. the wife and i have been married for 53 years, and now 42 of those years have been in public life. we felt it was time. i am also 80 years old now. i just felt it was time to go home, spend a little more time with the grandkids. the main thing was that these two years have gone by and they have been so important in terms of america being at war, but also in terms of recovering from a recession, or as chairman of the permanent subcommittee on

investigations -- there are important investigations that need to go on. i wanted to not take time away from that for campaigning. also, the budget situation here, which led to a crazy sequestration, needs to be revamped, to get rid of that approach, the automatic, across-the-board cuts approach that we call sequestration. to do that, it will require some additional revenue, as well as some modification in the entitlement area. we now need to focus on collecting the revenue which is lost because some of the most profitable corporations in america avoid paying taxes by shifting revenue to tax havens, by a bunch of tax avoidance gimmicks, which has happened in the last couple years. you put all that together, it is time not to run for reelection. >> you mentioned campaigning a couple times too. do you like campaigning? >> i like campaigning, i he's raising money. >> why? >> i think there is such a huge role for money in campaigns. it is painful, frankly. to continually ask people for money, particularly if those people have matters in front of the congress. the amounts are not what they used to be. the amounts used to be much more

manageable. you could ask people, an average person, for a lot of money. but it is not the unlimited funds that are now available, because of terrible supreme court decisions. people and corporations can be asked for unlimited amounts of money. they can also be kept anonymous, those contributions. and that is a real tragedy, i believe. it has changed the nature of the game, so there is too much money in these campaigns. i didn't feel comfortable being out there, asking for money in this setting. >> what are you going to miss? >> the reporters.

my friends in the senate, my staff. i have a fabulous staff and a lot of good friends. we will miss our house. we will miss capitol hill. we like living on capitol hill, we are urban people. we live in the city of detroit, that has always been my home, but we have got a wonderful neighborhood here. we have a wonderful eastern market where we love to shop. there are some things here that i will miss. i won't miss the excessive partisanship. the unwillingness of some to compromise, ideological rigidity. i won't miss that. but i will miss my colleagues. it is a great job. i am not leaving because of the job, i love the job. i love every minute of it, even when there is too much bickering going on. i have got a fabulous job. that is going to be hard to leave. >> legislatively, what sticks out in your mind? >> as much as we've accomplished and 36 years, i don't want to